Issue 38: Teaching kids to cook
With chef and writer Kate Ray
This week, we’re welcoming Kate Ray as a guest editor. Kate’s guide to involving kids in the kitchen for her Substack Soft Leaves really stuck with us the first (and seventh) time we read it, and we loved chatting with her on a recent afternoon while her kids napped. Kate told us about an 8-year-old who she taught to spatchcock a chicken and then he went home and made his family roast chicken for dinner. The dream! Read on for our conversation on cooking with kids, even the littlest ones. [Note this interview was edited for length and clarity.]
Q: Tell us about how you ended up where you are now, both in food and in parenthood.
A: I've been living in the Hudson Valley for about a year, and these days, I’m baking for the Rosendale Farmers’ Market, doing wholesale for the High Falls Food Co-op and Unicorn Bar, and managing catering. All that and raising a toddler and a baby.
I worked for ten years as a programmer and had a startup when I was younger. I felt increasingly alienated from the work that I was doing because I myself was changing, but also the state of the internet was changing, and there was a lot less room for playfulness. It was knowing that I wanted to have kids that gave me the push to quit my job and go to culinary school. I felt like if I waited until I had kids, I would never do it.
I finally got to culinary school and afterward, I did all the worst jobs up front, which I wouldn't have been able to do with kids. I worked the night shift at Dominique Ansel, I was a line cook at Dirt Candy, and then I got pregnant with Miro (my now-toddler) and I had a terrible first trimester.
You're such a team when you're a line cook. I hated being weak or not pulling my weight, but once I told my 22-year-old co-workers about my pregnancy, everyone started taking my cleaning tasks and did what they could to make it easier. It was very moving.
I left that job a little later for a much more chill job at Archestratus. After Miro was born, I started teaching cooking at Hudson Table and that’s when I got a lot more experience working with kids in the kitchen.
Q: So with your experience in the class environment, how would you start to introduce a child, even a toddler, to cooking?
A: When I’m teaching anybody to cook, whether it's a little kid, older kid, an adult, the thing that I am really teaching them is how to pay attention. They’re learning how to pay attention to food, to the equipment, to the space, and to themselves, and to learn how to trust their own taste.
A lot of adults can feel afraid of deviating from recipes and they might have this idea that they should be doing things the right way. Focusing on their own experience, tasting things as they go along, learning what they like and how to get there are all skills I want people of any age to learn in the kitchen.
The cutoff for the cooking classes I taught was a little older, 4 or so, but now I have my own toddler to experiment with. At this point, he mostly just likes to be involved with whatever I'm doing.
I find small tasks to get him involved. We have a little stepstool thing so he can get up to the counter level and do little things, like tare the scale when I’m weighing something. As he’s grown, I’ve gradually given him more jobs.
On the 4th of July, he made popsicles to share with his cousin. Obviously, I was still doing a lot to make that experience happen, but I was trying to be more hands-off. He’d add in some blueberries, some yogurt, and I’d let him mix it up how he wanted without trying to make it look nice.
That was the first step of him being able to feel a sense of ownership over what he’s making. Even as we mixed the honey and vanilla into the yogurt, I’d ask him to taste it and tell me if it's good. He's not old enough yet to figure out that he should ask for more honey if it’s not sweet enough. As kids start to understand flavor, I do let them add in a bunch of honey or whatever, because I want them to be tasting and deciding for themselves if it's good or not.
As the kids grow up, there can be more and more tasks that they can take responsibility for and own. It can start with an experience that you’ve created and set up so it’s easy for them to make something they’ll actually like, but as they get older, you can give them more freedom and prerogative.
Something I like to do with older elementary schoolers up to teenagers is have them create a restaurant. At Hudson Table, I designed a curriculum around a one week camp, and one year, our theme was diners. We would learn some diner recipes throughout the first few days, and then the campers would form groups and come up with their own diner, with a name, a theme, and a whole menu.
The kids would write out all the steps, all the ingredients that they would need, and make a prep list. On Friday, the last day of camp, they cooked their whole menus for their families.
The version of this with teens can get a little bit fancier with different courses, more ownership, but at any age, it’s something you can adapt for home without it being a multi-day process.
Q: How do you think about safety in the kitchen? Obviously, there’s a lot that can be dangerous. I still think about your tip about having your knives in the “off position” at the top of your cutting board while prepping ingredients.
A: Once you've worked in a kitchen, you're always trying to minimize accidents. You're making sure that the handles are not facing out and if you take something hot out of the oven, you keep a towel on it as a signal to people that it's hot.
You’re already doing this as a parent, but you’re watching out for the obviously dangerous things. I’ve noticed from working with kids using knives that they don’t get as many cuts as you might expect.
By now, I’m pretty good at staying calm and that’s been really important. I almost never yell, and while that’s part of staying calm, it’s also safer because if you startle someone who's holding a knife in a dangerous way, they're more likely to turn around with it and actually hurt someone.
When I see something dangerous happening, I say “Stop!” or “Pause!” to get their attention and end the unsafe behavior. Then we talk about what happened. I ask if they want me to show them the technique again, like how to hold the knife or how to hold a vegetable, or if they want me to reposition their hands for them. I would never grab the knife or their hands. I would sometimes see parents doing this when I would teach a parent-kid class, but it takes away agency from the kid and it’s more dangerous.
Staying calm is definitely the best way to keep everybody safe. You’ll also learn to differentiate between the types of danger – a kid will get a really bad burn if they grab something that just came out of the oven, but if they graze a hot stove, they'll learn not to do that again without getting seriously hurt.
Two other ground rules I use are no running in the kitchen and no reaching onto or across someone's cutting board. There are a number of things that are non-negotiable like that.
I also teach that the first thing you do with something you want to cut is to create a flat side if it’s a wobbly or spherical item. Show them how to cut it with the flat side down on a cutting board that's secured with a wet paper towel or dishtowel underneath. I also like drawer liners for under cutting boards - you can find them at the hardware store.
Q: How has parenthood changed the way that you cook? Was there an evolution in your cooking when you went from one kid to two?
A: Oh yeah, my six-month-old still basically yells at the top of her lungs at dinnertime almost every night. It’s stressful, and I’m saying that as someone who loves to put thought into a meal and enjoy it with my partner. It’s hard to let go of that because it's too chaotic to eat at the same time and focus on the food together. Sometimes it works out, but I’ve had to adjust my expectations around having a nice meal.
I don’t make kids’ food exactly, but I also don't necessarily cook the way I would if it was just us adults. My toddler eats salads, which is great, and we eat beans for the entire winter. Now that the baby is starting to eat solid foods, we'll do more soft stuff, but beans are still always good.
For me, the focus has been on emotionally readjusting to what mealtime looks like. We're just in such a chaotic stage right now with a toddler and a baby, so I’m hopeful we'll get mealtime back in the future.
Honestly, I think what I've learned from parenting is that prioritizing yourself, and the ability to be calm, that’s more important than getting them to bed on time or feeding them enough. Otherwise, when you start to lose it, everything starts to fall apart. Being really conscious of your own energy and stress levels and knowing when you need to take a break, that's the golden rule of parenting.
Q: It sounds like salads and beans are big in your house – what are the other surefire hits (to the extent anything can be “sure” with little kids)?
Anything that has rice, and of course, pasta. In the summer, we make pesto in the food processor and then add that to pasta. Working with machines has also been a hit and that’s something that can be relatively easy for small kids to manage. Letting my three-year-old turn on the food processor or the KitchenAid can be really cool for him. Slightly older kids might be able to assemble the machines or add an attachment.
Once the food processor is ready to go, you can teach them something about whisking cream or creaming butter and sugar together. Right now, there are surefire hits, but there are also things like hard boiled eggs. One day they're completely gone from his lunchbox, and the next day, it looks like a tiny bird did two pecks of the eggs and that’s it.
Q: What tools or equipment do you recommend for kid hands in the kitchen? The salad spinner gets a lot of love in our house.
A: I try to get kids using a real chef's knife as soon as they feel comfortable. That’s usually around 8-10 years old, but it depends a lot on the kid. They learn a lot more about how to cut in safe ways. Kids who have used serrated plastic knives for too long start to learn some bad habits because they start to saw at whatever they’re cutting.
One of the first things I teach kids with a big, heavy chef's knife is how to slice, how to move forward the knife as they're holding it. I see kids mess around with those safe kids’ knives a lot more; they’ll dance with them and run around with them because they know they’re not dangerous. I want them to develop safe knife habits as young as possible.
Aside from physical limitations, using real equipment and asking for help when needed is ideal. I'll let kids work with a kitchen torch when they're old enough, and I'll control when it goes on and off.
A kid who has worked with real tools and learned how to use them is going to be a lot safer than one who has been protected from too much and is then confronted with a situation they haven't had to deal with before.
[Rather than specific tools] it's more about watching your kid and knowing when they're ready for the next thing and building good habits.
Q: Any last thoughts you’d like to share, Kate?
A: Cooking with kids is all about trusting them and letting them surprise you. Kids can have a much easier time being creative than adults, and that's one of the things that's so much fun about them. It’s up to us to encourage that in the kitchen, whether it's combining some stuff that you think is weird together or trying something that you aren't sure if it'll turn out well. It might be uncomfortable but keeping yourself within bounds so the kids can lead and learn that being in the kitchen is a lot of fun. They can find out that cooking can be just as much fun as drawing or making up stories or dancing.
Thank you, Kate!
Kate Ray is a chef and writer based in Kingston, NY. As a chef, her focus is on promoting regional and regenerative foods. As a writer, she publishes essays and tells stories about creators who work with food.
What We’re Reading
[Kate] - I love this quote from The Golden State by Lydia Kiesling (and I recommend the whole book.)
She is squirming thrashing rolling and she is off the bed, she is on the move and suddenly I have what I think may be my most important epiphany about motherhood which is that your child is not your property and motherhood is not a house you live in but a warren of beautiful rooms, something like Topkapi, something like the Alhambra on a winter morning, some well-trod but magnificent place you're only allowed to sit in for a minute and snap a photo before you are ushered out and you'll never remember every individual jewel of a room but if you're lucky you go through another and another and another and another until they finally turn out the lights. I pick up our things and consider this while Honey uses the cord to pull the telephone off the nightstand onto her toes.
[Ashley] - Dr. Sara Reardon is a pelvic floor physical therapist best known as The Vagina Whisperer. She has made guest appearances for the likes of Emily Oster and The Today Show and is a strong advocate for women’s pelvic health. She just came out with a book, Floored: A Woman’s Guide to Pelvic Floor Health at Every Age and Stage, that I am adding to my movement bookshelf!
[Genevieve] - I’m starting One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This by Omar El Akkad and it is coming at the right time for me to step away from my small, addictive screen, step back from the cacophony of voices, and look straight into the mirror that El Akkad is holding up to those of us in the West living through this period of history.
[Maddie] - As Congress is evaluating steep cuts to funding for public broadcasting, But Why: A Podcast for Curious Kids is a good reminder of how special and delightful public radio can be. The episodes “How does food turn into poop?” and “Why do trains run on tracks?” are two particular faves.
Our Picks
[Kate] - Get an induction cooktop! Induction heat is so much more efficient, boils water super fast, doesn't heat up your kitchen, is healthier for you and your family than gas, and the actual device stays cool even while you're cooking, so there's less chance of accidental burning of small hands. You don't have to replace your whole range — you can get a single cooktop for under $100 (I have a Duxtop one, but most are pretty good) and use it in addition to your stove, particularly for water-based cooking or anything that takes a long simmer. You will need induction-compatible cookware, but if you have a cast-iron pan or a Dutch oven, you've already got some.
[Ashley] - I made this shortbread recipe for our Women’s Circle last month and it was a hit. I subbed in lemon zest for rosemary, because it is summer after all, and served it with strawberries from our circle leader Becca’s farm. It really hit the spot for a late morning with coffee. I’m still thinking about it so I’ll likely make them again this weekend.
[Genevieve] - Find a local swimming hole and get into it. Trixie’s List has a few Upper Hudson Valley and Berkshires locations, the Catskills have their own, and Lower Hudson Valley has their beaches (ooh-la-la). If you find one that’s not on a public list, remember to follow Fight Club rules: the first rule of secret swimming holes is you do not talk about secret swimming holes. The second rule is you do not post about them on social media.
[Maddie] - A very literal pick this week: PYO blueberries with the lovely folks at Whistle Down Farm in Hudson. For the daytime toddler equivalent of dinner and movie, pair with Blueberries for Sal and these perfect muffins.
Working Together
Good Trouble Lives On is a national day of nonviolent action, in honor of the late Rep John Lewis, to “respond to the attacks posed on our civil and human rights by the Trump administration and to remind them that in America, the power lies with the people.” Today, July 17, there are (post-workday) events being held in Kingston, Catskill, Chatham and many more places too.
In the Neighborhood
We live in the Mid-Hudson Valley and we’re keeping tabs on these (mostly family-friendly) events near us. If there’s another event you’d like us to share, please send it our way!
Ongoing Events
Through August 16 - Bard Summerscape, Annandale-on-Hudson
Mondays - Wiggles and Words (for 0-6 months) at the Red Hook Library, Red Hook
Mondays - Songs & Stories at Ulster Public Library, Ulster
Mondays and Fridays - Tunes and Tales at the Red Hook Library, Red Hook
Tuesdays - Storytime with Robbie at Starr Library, Rhinebeck
Wednesdays - Runs with Return Run Club, Hudson
Wednesdays until August 20 - Waterfront Wednesdays, Hudson
Thursdays - Music & Movement Storytime at the Hudson Area Library, Hudson
Thursdays - Haema pop-up at Return Brewing, Hudson
Fridays - Preschool Story Time at Ulster Public Library, Ulster
Fridays until August 22 - Wethersfield Adventurers Club, Amenia
Saturdays - Hudson Farmers' Market, Hudson
Saturdays - Maverick Family Saturday concerts, Woodstock
Saturdays - Outdoor Yoga (with llamas) at Clover Brooke Farm, Hyde Park
Sundays - Rhinebeck Farmers’ Market, Rhinebeck
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July & August Events
Thursday, July 17 - Columbia County Recovery Kitchen Celebration, Hudson ^
Thursday, July 17 - Good Trouble Lives On aka John Lewis Day, multiple locations
Thursday, July 17 to Monday, July 21 - Upstate Art Weekend, Kingston and beyond
Friday, July 18 - How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex at The Spark of Hudson, Hudson
Friday, July 18 - Monday, July 21 - GROUNDTONE Music Festival at PS21, Chatham
Saturday, July 19 - Farm Feast with Branchwater Farms at Stissing House, Pine Plains ^
Saturday, July 19 - Natural Dye Workshop by Sun Drawn at Left Bank Ciders, Catskill *
Saturday, July 19 - Water Wars at FASNY Museum of Firefighting, Hudson
Saturday, July 19 - Sunday, July 20 - Rosendale Street Festival, Rosendale
Sunday, July 20 - Sound Mobile Making Workshop with Super-Stories at PS21, Chatham
Monday, July 21 - Forest Yoga with A Tree Told Me, Red Hook
Monday, July 21 - Baby Nature Class with Hudson Valley Adventure Club, Livingston
Tuesday, July 22 - How to Stay Tidy with Tiny Humans at The Spark of Hudson, Hudson
Wednesday, July 23 - Wednesday Wander with Hudson Valley Adventure Club, Livingston
Thursday, July 24 - How to Build a Cheese Board at The Spark of Hudson, Hudson
Saturday, July 26 - Camp Here Nowhere Now retreat, Livingston
Saturday, July 26 - Community Barn Raising at Art Omi, Ghent
Saturday, July 26 - Intro to Sourdough at The Spark of Hudson, Hudson
Sunday, July 27 - Annual Blueberry Festival, Austerlitz
Tuesday, July 29 - Moms Next Door Know Your Rights Training, Virtual
Friday, August 1 - GODDESS: Origins of Wonder ft. Goddess Party, Athens
Saturday, August 2 - Frolic at the Farm, Red Hook
Saturday, August 16 - Summer Music Series: The Goddess Party, Athens
Thursday, August 21 - How to Run Your First Long Distance Race at The Spark of Hudson, Hudson
^ = for adults
* = will likely sell out, so book soon
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